US Government admits botched job of WTC investigation

I'm just going to post pertenant parts but please read this document in it's entirety. Look at what they admit. It's in plane site yet we who question all this are the "crazies".

Washington, D.C. - President Bush has signed into law legislation sponsored by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-Queens & Brooklyn) and Science Committee Chair Sherwood Boehlert (R - NY), and New York Senators Clinton and Schumer, to overhaul building collapse investigations. The National Construction Safety Team Act will ensure that the mishandled evidence and in-fighting that hobbled FEMA’s World Trade Center investigation never happens again. Rep. Weiner issued the following statement:

"Thousands of tons of steel were carted away from ground zero and recycled before any expert could examine what could have been tell-tale clues. Support trusses, fireproofing fragments and even burnt out electrical switches that might have given scientists and engineers insight were lost forever - even before an investigation was underway.

"These failures mean that we are short--even to this day--on conclusions about design decisions that may have contributed to the deaths of so many firefighters and workers on the top floors.

"First, just as the NTSB immediately sequesters evidence involved in a plane crash, our bill creates immediate on-site authority for investigators of collapses to have access to and preservation of important materials. And–if necessary–the new panel may subpoena materials.

"Never again will we see the destruction of materials and the legal jousting that marked the scene of the 9/11 attack, where even the blueprints of the buildings took weeks to secure.

www.house.gov...

Straight from the horses mouth folks. The "truthers' didn't make this stuff up.



[edit on 6/21/2008 by Griff]

[edit on 6/21/2008 by Griff]

I haven't read the complete document, but here's a first reaction to your post.

One of the hallmarks of government pronouncements since 9/11 has been the massaging and kneading of "the story" for cosmetic purposes. I take your point about this being an acknowledgement of sorts that all our "bellyaching" has not been ill founded, but the overall optics of this just make me sick. It's like Dracula asking for tighter controls at the bloodbank after having just finished a monumental bloodbinge.

I followed the link and read the document.

I'm not impressed. As far as I'm concerned this is a soporific. I'm sure it has useful elements, like enhanced emergency planning, evacuation protocols, etc., but as far as I'm concerned this is a sop to whatever sanity there is left among the American public. It just means that the process of forming scar tissue over the large wound to the American body politic has begun.

Bottom line, this document and the legislation that it announces means that out in the real world of people who are not brazen jailhouse lawyers and excusers of the inexcusable, the government acknowledges that it must make nice to the very large number of honest Americans who are very P.O'd about what the government was up to on 9/11.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
One of the hallmarks of government pronouncements since 9/11 has been the massaging and kneading of "the story" for cosmetic purposes.

For most people, appearance is all that's needed. Just go through the motions and they will see what they're comfortable with. Most people on these forums probably do not even realize how narrow-scoped the NIST report was, and how it utterly failed to provide any support for what little of a hypothesis it did offer.

Thanks for the post, Griff. I didn't realize that there was "in-fighting" during the FEMA report's production. A lot of those same engineers later went to NIST, and we know what a disaster that was.

My main point of posting this information is that we keep hearing from the debunkers that the steel was investigated before it was shipped off to be smelted down.

This document proves them wrong. As the government admits that thousands of tons of steel were carted off and recycled before any expert got a chance to evaluate it.

So much for .."but, but the steel was taken to fresh kills landfill where it was examined." That is wrong and the government admits it and even tells us so.

So, where are the debunkers to tell us differently?

Admitting to the American people that you were stupid, and that you handled a situation poorly, seems to be the cover up of choice these days.

Quickly get rid of the steel, and later say: "Well that was dumb, maybe we should have examined it, so this never happens again."

The American masses love that, so they don't have to handle the truth. They think: "Oh well, it's too late now anyway to do anything about it, and they did admit they were wrong."

Very sad indeed.

Are none of the "debunkers" going to offer any response to any of this at all?


I'm tired of hearing that we're just wrong and everything is already "proven" when this kind of information regarding the investigations is in public domain for all to read, straight from the horse's mouth.

I think that the American people really dont care. Take a look at the people in your neighborhood...You think that these people think about 9-11 at all? As your neighborhood gets the mail...walks their dogs.....washes their cares....they are not thinking about what happened that day. People dont do research. They dont care. The most important "issue" in the minds of American people is the price of gas. We are stuck right now. Unless there is a huge media outcry, we are going to have to eat our words and know the truth is out there but nobody cares.

i think its funny how they admit they screwed up and said they are going to change the way things are handled in the future but fail to address the thousands of people calling for a new independent investigation.

This is nothing but a PR stunt to quiet dissenters when in actuality nothing will be done to right the wrongs of that day.

If they are going to admit they screwed up then great....go back with a non-biased team and properly investigate what happened. I know the steel has already been melted down, but there are plenty of other aspects that could be rehatched and looked at again.

reply to post by bringthelight


That is the problem....nobody gives a crap anymore. We are still "crazy" for believing anything but the official story. They messed up but nobody cares. They can release a news story stating that the investigation was messed up and done wrong, but people are not going to jump to the conclusion that is was an inside job. I mean we already know that the EPA was told to say that the air was safe, thus promoting workers going to the site to clean up the mess......They are now dying.....Its a fact that this was false information.....It has been for some time. There have been articles in the news that have stated this
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Again.....Look at the people in the your neighborhood. They DONT CARE....Nobody cares anymore. This is what we have to deal with and address. We have to get this information in the mainstream media...we have to make this a headline....next step....how do we get this accomplished????

its so true. Most people are afraid of the conclusion that our good old government might have had something to do with this tragic event. It is too disturbing.

I showed my parents loose change and after watching they were literally stunned. They didn't know what to say or do. Then a few days later they were back to normal and refused to talk about it.

Once you can open your mind to the possibility the next thought is, yeah it happened but what can we do about it?

I think most people just feel helpless and would rather go on living their lives oblivious to the fact that our govt is really messed up

reply to post by bringthelight


Correct! That is the biggest battle that we now face. Americans complacency with the crap that we have been fed. The truth is out there, but nobody cares. I feel that it is now our job to stop searching for that certain piece of evidence that is going to convince the people on this website.....we have done that...they are not going to listen. We need to bring the truth to the masses. However, who is going to do that? We have organizations out there, but they are being ignored. They might get some media time as the "crazy truthers" that think 9-11 was an inside job, but its never serious! Again, people dont care anymore....

Here is another interesting tidbit from the document:

"Should future buildings avoid the concentration of stairwells that were used in the Twin Towers? Was enough attention given to the communications infrastructure that failed in the 1993 bombing and tragically left hundreds of emergency workers climbing stairs while officials on the ground knew that the buildings were about to come down?

...knew that the buildings were about to come down...

wait a minute...who exactly knew the buildings were going to come down??? Rudy??? I don't recall that officials knew WTC 1 & 2 were going to come down.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


nice find...thats pretty funny that they had that in there.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


There is discussion of this on ATS.

I remember it from months ago. As I recall a fireman on the scene had been told by someone in Giuliani's office that they should evacuate because they had been told that the building (I can't remember which tower it was.) was going to come down.

The fireman's reaction, as I recall, was to the effect of how do they know that, when we, on the scene don't know that.

This revelation spawned discussion about what did Giuliani know and when. And even more to the point how?

[edit on 23-6-2008 by ipsedixit]

I remember it from months ago. As I recall a fireman on the scene had been told by someone in Giuliani's office that they should evacuate because they had been told that the building (I can't remember which tower it was.) was going to come down.

Timeline

• At 9:30 am, a FDNY Chief Officer inside WTC 1 feels the building move and makes the decision that the building is no longer safe.
• At 9:49 am, NYPD helicopters provide a radio report stating that “large pieces” are falling from WTC 2.
• At 10:07 am, NYPD aviation units warn that WTC 1 may collapse.
• At 10:20 am, NYPD aviation unit reports that WTC 1 is leaning to the south.

wtc.nist.gov...

FDNY Assistant Chief Joseph Callan: "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower."

www.nytimes.com...

Callan: "For me to make the decision to take our firefighters out of the building with civilians still in it, that was very tough for me, but I did that because I did not think the building was safe any longer, and that was just prior to 9:30."–

transcripts.cnn.com...

EMS Division Chief John Peruggia: "I was in a discussion with Mr. Rotanz and I believe it was a representative from the Department of Buildings, but I'm not sure. Some engineer type person, and several of us were huddled talking in the lobby and it was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building's stability was compromised and they felt that the north tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.

I grabbed EMT Zarrillo, I advised him of that information. I told him he was to proceed immediately to the command post where Chief Ganci was located. Told him where it was across the street from number 1 World Trade Center. I told him "You see Chief Ganci and Chief Ganci only. Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse." So, he left off in that direction."

It wasn't Giuliani telling the fireman - it was the fireman who recognized
the signs the building was becoming upstable and started to clear
the building.

More reports of building instability

911stories.googlepages.com...

reply to post by thedman


[yvid][/yvid]

Any response to the owner of the building saying they should "pull it" on national television?

reply to post by bringthelight


Bring, I think it's been pointed out repeatedly, here on aother ATS threads, sometimes by actual firefighters who are members here.

The term 'pull it' is meant to imply pull out of the firefighting effort. So, what you have here is a businessman property owner with a smattering of 'lingo' that he can spout to sound intelligent.

That's what I've been able to understand as I've read accounts about that day.

Well Mr. US Government, it's abit LATE now to admit your mistake don't you think? If you got it right in the first place we may not of had the deaths of THOUSANDS of soildiers, the deaths of COUNTLESS civilians and then America may not be 9 TRILLION dollars in debt. That's GROSS and UTTER INCOMPETENCE!



Flagged.

[edit on 23/6/2008 by C0bzz]

reply to post by weedwhacker


It is also a demolition term to blow up a building. I know this could start a massive debate and I admit he could have just meant pull out the fire fighters, but I can not get past the fact that there were a couple of floors on fire for a few hours and then an implosion followed.

It just doesn't add up to me. Im sure many of you have agreed upon that fact, but I guess you just don't want to believe that something sinister happened and that our gov't could be that cruel.

Originally posted by thedman

• At 10:20 am, NYPD aviation unit reports that WTC 1 is leaning to the south.

Then how in the heck did it come straight down? Shouldnt it have fallen to the south since it was already leaning?